Transcript
Alicia: Brett, what’s the most uncomfortable trip you’ve been on?
Brett: Boston. Easy.
Alicia: Why?
Brett: I am an extrovert and I like to be around people but that was the first trip I really took by myself and so I felt alone.
Brett: Welcome to the Discover Your Wilderness Podcast.
Alicia: Alright we have talked about different trips that we have taken individually together with big groups, small groups but they’re all very different based on who’s there and the activities that we do and how adventurous it is but one thing that we haven’t really delved into is what the name of our podcast really means, Discover Your Wilderness. And I know that’s something that we both wrestled a lot with to try and figure out what the name of this was going to be and why that has meaning so what do you say we dive into that today?
Brett: Sounds good.
Alicia: So I feel like it’s always a good idea to start by defining something so, Brett, how would you define wilderness?
Brett: When we were discussing the name you alluded to this: we wanted a podcast that could connect with people who were high intensity, high adventure – people who rock climb in Yosemite and people who hang glide, and stuff like that. So we thought well maybe adventure, maybe outdoor, maybe that kind of verbiage and we drifted away from it because it would alienate some people who their adventures aren’t as outdoorsy. They might not be camping, they might not be hammocking, or rock climbing. And so we wanted something that embraced both of those. And wilderness kind of stands with a leg in both worlds because your wilderness just breaking down the word “wilderness” can be both forest, outside, that typical type of John Muir-ian world. But it can also mean if you’re in the city discovering something that you haven’t ever seen before. It might be a class that you’ve never taken. And it might be a park that you’ve never been to. It’s not that high intensity, high adventure outdoors, but it’s still outdoors and it’s foreign to you which is what makes it wilderness.
Alicia: Something that is wild enough that it blows your mind or expands your perspective.
Brett: Yeah exactly.
Alicia: Now you mentioned that being in any kind of setting, do you have some specific examples of how you have seen this play out?
Brett: So in the top of this podcast you ask me where the most uncomfortable place was that I had gone on a trip to. My wilderness in this realm, I’ve been to the Philippines, I’ve been to Israel, I’ve been to Italy and Germany but after all of that chronologically I visited Boston. Now all of those other places I had been traveling with someone that I knew. When I went to Boston I went on a work trip and then I stayed a few days longer to discover this awesome historic city but none of my coworkers were with me then and I was traveling for the first time in my life by myself alone in a city. Now I don’t worry so much about my safety in a city especially like Boston, I was in a pretty well to do part of the city so I wasn’t so worried about that but I was out of my comfort zone because, or at the edge of my comfort zone because, I wasn’t going to have someone to share those memories and experiences with. So being an extrovert as I am, I wanted someone to be able to banter back and forth with, to be able to talk to on the train ride back to my Airbnb or to even just decompress with at the end of the night. And not having that. I was really in a weird spot that I was experiencing this thing no one else was and that was uncomfortable for me.
Alicia: Well on half of the fun of a trip is reminiscing about it afterwards and saying remember that one time when that crazy thing happened.
Brett: Yeah.
Alicia: The irony behind the way that we’ve kind of positioned wilderness for us here is that you’re talking about Boston being wild and being a wilderness to you and it’s funny because for you and I, I think what most people think of wilderness as being when we typically talk about the wilderness going out into the wilderness. But for us because we have so much experience camping and hiking, backpacking, I’m way more comfortable in the actual wilderness than I am in some cities, in some more urban spaces that other people would say, no, that’s, that’s more familiar, that’s safer, that’s more reasonable. You have everything you need in a city. So that’s just I guess underpinning the very fact that our wilderness is going to be different from one person to the next and from one scenario to the next. I guess I shouldn’t say I’m more comfortable in the wilderness. I’m more comfortable in certain outdoor spaces because they’re familiar to me or because I know how to find my way around them.
Brett: If you know, yeah, if you know how that works, if you have an understanding of how it works, but that’s what makes the wilderness the wilderness, I feel like. It’s wild because it’s unexpected and you don’t know the culture or the language or the people or how to get around and that could be in the middle of the Arizona National Forest or maybe you know the Arizona National Forest and you know what kind of plants to look for, how to stay warm at night, how to navigate from one place to another. So that where it’s expected is no longer wild to you. And I think that’s where this discover your wilderness is, you not only have to reach the edge of where your comfort zone stops and your discomfort zone begins, but then once you’re there, you have to discover it because it’s only wild as long as it’s undiscovered by you.
Alicia: Oh, I like that. It’s only wild as long as it’s undiscovered. It becomes almost familial, it becomes almost a part of you and it’s not wild to you anymore. It’s not unknown to you because it’s comfortable, it’s part of your experience now. I think it would be good to take a moment and appreciate the fact that this is even going to be varied based on experience levels. I know some people who are just as comfortable in the outdoor wilderness as in the urban jungle.I know people who have traveled a lot and had so many experiences that for them that growth zone is going to be trickier to finding it to you. But I also know people who that growth zone is going to be a much more accessible space because they don’t have as much experience. Even though that’s totally okay, the whole point of the concept of discovering your wilderness is the fact that no matter where you’re at, you’re pushing yourself beyond that space. You’re stepping into something that is wild and that that is the point of travel I think is to become connected to another space, to another culture, to another part of this world that we live in. So I want to ask if you have any habits, either established habits or habits you’re working on that help you push yourself beyond your comfort zone, into that growth zone.
Brett: I…so a year and a half ago, two years ago, I realized that I had traveled to Asia and Europe, Asia, and never actually gone to either Mexico or Canada. So one of my goals at that time was I need to stop traveling around the globe to see somewhere new and visit the countries that are right next to me. I live in the United States. And so Mexico is not that far away and yet I had never been there. We went over Christmas and we saw Mexico. So I had that experience. It’s recognizing, oh, we’re kind of taking that inventory, where am I? And then extending yourself into that, I can now say I’ve been to both Canada and Mexico. And so maybe Central America is next on the list, maybe go back to Europe or Asia or even Africa. So saying, oh, here’s something that I’ve never done before, set a goal for that and then work towards that goal, which should seem pretty simple. But I think it’s important to recognize that if you’re always going somewhere that you’ve been, you’ll never discover something that’s new. And something else that’s a little bit easier to digest, maybe than traveling to another country. I love how all growing up, when we’ve traveled with our family, our mom would say, if we have that restaurant in the city that we’re from, we’re not going to eat there when we’re visiting a new city. So McDonald’s pretty ubiquitous. If you’re traveling around the world, don’t go to McDonald’s, don’t go to Pizza Hut. They probably have great pizza restaurants. They probably have really good Chinese restaurants, don’t just hit up the typical Chinese restaurant chains that you have. And that is a way to appreciate something about somewhere that you’re visiting that’s still, I want pizza. Okay, that’s fine. But just don’t get the exact same pizza that you get, which you can get if you’re at home, because that’s not really, if you’re going to travel somewhere and then live the exact same life eating at the same places, you’re not really discovering wilderness. You’re just exploring the already known.
Alicia: I feel like we could even scale that down a little bit too, whether you’re traveling or not, the very concept of being aware of what’s around you and what is common to you versus what is unique and what could bring something different into your life other than the standard that you grew up with. So that’s eating at a restaurant that you haven’t tried before and potentially finding a gem in your own neighborhood, like when you took me to that, what is it, cafe or bridge? And it became one of our favorite places to go, which isn’t I already in and of itself, but it’s finding those spaces to practice that growth on a daily basis so that when you’re traveling, it’s already a habit, it’s already kind of ingrained in you to go, “wow, start a new city with all new restaurants. I don’t even have to try and find one because there are so many new restaurants here for me to tap into now.”
Brett: And it’s not to say you need to do it all the time. I definitely have favorite restaurants too. I love Panda Express. Now (#notsponsored) but even when I go to Panda Express, I try to say what is some I have in my tried and true, but what are some of the things on the menu that I’ve never tried? Is there something that I want to try that I’ve never tried before? And it can be a 90, 10, 80, 40 or 50, 50 split either direction. You don’t have to and it’s not prescriptive, right? I don’t always do it. Sometimes I get the orange chicken and the fried rice, but sometimes I go, you know, I’ve never had the honey, sesame, sweet, sour, whatever. And so I get that because it’s new. I know that it’s coming from, it’s familiar enough, but still extending myself into something that’s unique. But yeah, when you go, when you go somewhere new and you’re surrounded by awesome things.
Alicia: It’s exciting. So let’s go with that then. How do you find the balance between growth and comfort when you’re planning a trip, when you’re choosing a restaurant, whatever it might be, how are you choosing which activities are a tried and true option and which activities are going to be in that growth zone in that try it and hope for the best space?
Brett: When I travel, I’m typically going to be more in the mindset of I’m going somewhere to experience something novel. So when if I travel to somewhere, I try never to eat at a restaurant that I have available to me, even still, it was from being a kid, I still try to do that. So it’s, I’m not going to get anything 100% of the time. If I’m around my own city, then I still try to keep this mindset with me. And so something else I’d like to do, if I go to a new place and it has a name branded something or other, like if, for example, if you go to a restaurant called Curry Fried Chicken and a menu item is Curry Fried Chicken, I’ll either get that or I’ll get something that sounds horrendous because if they can make that taste good, it’s probably a good restaurant. If not, it’s an adventure, so if I’m staying around my own hometown, it obviously takes some mental fatigue to always be trying novel things. But I try to fit it in probably a 10%, 90% split of, oh, I’m going to go somewhere familiar, at least try to get something that’s unique, 10% of the time.
Alicia: I once heard that our brains, we can keep our brains sharp and our brains can improve by exploring something every day. So I think that fits in with that. Yeah, let’s go to a restaurant that we know that we love, but we’ll try something even there. We’ll try something on the smallest scale that’s still going to be new to us and a mini adventure. So we talked a little bit about this and maybe we don’t want to dive into it too much more today. But what are your thoughts on how wilderness plays out differently for different groups or individuals?
Brett: I think it takes self-awareness of your strengths and your weaknesses and to not be afraid of weaknesses. And really, that you’re the best person to say that. And it takes, okay, well, you have a friend who’s saying, “hey, I want to go, I’m going to go rock climbing.” For them, that might be familiar. And for you, if that’s a weakness, oh, hey, yeah, maybe I’ll consider rock climbing. But there’s not really blanket statements you can make on what types of individuals have, what types of wilderness, because for every person they have their own wilderness. But being self-aware, I guess the steps you can kind of say is what are areas in my life I’m trying to avoid or that scare me, because really, life is expansive, life is awesome and the more you explore, the more you have to appreciate. So the whole purpose of this, in my opinion, is if you can expand your horizons, you’re going to find more things that you can be appreciative of. So having that mindset of I want to discover something new, I want the opportunity to be amazed by what I learn and discover today. And then being self-aware of fitting that in and then recognizing afterwards, I did something that was out of my comfort zone, giving yourself credit for that. So for one individual, it might be going to Boston, and for someone else, it might be going camping outside in the actual wilderness. But those are some steps that anyone, I think, can apply.
Alicia: And I think we’ll dive deeper into that another time, but it’s definitely something that fits very well with this topic. So our invitation to you for this week is, especially in this time of uncertainty, a lot of things are still shifting here in Utah and the Salt Lake area. It’s been a real crazy week for us as far as weather goes. But with all this uncertainty, go out and try something new. Step out of your comfort zone into whatever wilderness you have available to you, whether that’s trying a new restaurant or trying a new game or meeting somebody new, whatever might be a wilderness space for you, and see what happens. And if you have a really cool experience or a really crazy experience, we’d love to hear about it. Send us a message with that. In the meantime, take care of yourselves, we’ll be back next week. Let me find the words…
Brett: And … discover your wilderness.
Alicia: Good call. Also, is “muir-sy” a word?
Brett: I invented that for this!
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Want to discover more wilderness, or podcasts, listen to episode 9 to hear what inspires our work.